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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number 743 for the 1st of

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January

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20

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23

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been broadcast in 16 different years

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there are many listeners to the skeptic

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Zone

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younger than the show itself I have to

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think about that for a while

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coming up on this week's show I speak to

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Stephen vivaro who was a recent speaker

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at skepticon 2022 in Canberra and I find

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out about his views his take on pseudo

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archeology

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this is when people misrepresent distort

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makeup fabricate

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tell a few fibs

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however you want to look at it about uh

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archeology

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did aliens really build the pyramids hmm

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somehow I doubt it find out about pseudo

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archeology coming up at the top of the

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show then to follow that we have a sort

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of a review a review of the skeptic Zone

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some of the highlights month by month

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for the year 2022. what do you remember

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hearing what did you miss

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we have a yeah a review I was quite

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surprised when I did this all the things

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that the show's done over the year

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following that it's a classic report a

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classic report from Joe Alabaster going

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back nearly eight years I think seven or

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eight years where Joe talks about

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cupping

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round welts on people's back because

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they've gone somewhere and had cupping

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done to them what's the use what's the

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benefit what's the hum what's it all

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about find out with Joe Alabaster coming

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up

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then around off the show Trove looks at

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New Year's predictions and I think more

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or less centering on the early 90s

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in the pages of the Canberra times

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what was written about New Year's

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predictions

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2023

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hard to believe that's what I say every

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year but now it's time for me to walk

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around the corner into the kitchen

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have a look through hmm hopefully

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there's some salad I'm going to start

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2023 off on a healthy note maybe a

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carrot will I do that I hope you enjoy

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the skeptic Zone

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[Music]

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well folks on last week's episode of the

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skeptic Zone you've probably heard Dr

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Eugenie Scott and I talking about

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ancient apocalypse the crazy bizarre

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Netflix documentary which uh postulates

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the idea that our ancestors or ancestors

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of people in certain parts of the world

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couldn't possibly have built the things

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they did thousands of years ago and must

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have been helped by whom we're not sure

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and this all falls into the category the

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broad category of pseudo archeology and

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joining me now on the line all the way

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from Sydney Australia right across the

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Pacific is a student at Macquarie

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University and contributor to the

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skeptic magazine and indeed was a

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speaker at the recent 2022 skepticon

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convention in Canberra it's Stephen

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vivaro Hello Steven

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hi Richard how you going

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not doing too bad I'm here in rainy and

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cold California but I have been looking

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at the news reports from back home to

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see the um Heat Wave gripping Australia

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which is ironic or crazy because right

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here in much of the United States it's

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terrible blizzard conditions what a

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planet we live on

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but not in California though not in no

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well not I can't speak for all of

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California but the Bay Area San

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Francisco is just sort of wet and

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miserable at the moment but I don't mind

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because we're not freezing or boiling at

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the same time now uh Stephen I was

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looking forward to catching up with you

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meeting you at the convention and

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especially hearing your talk

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unfortunately covid-19 had other ideas

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but I was on the couch wrapped up in a

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blanket and I did see your talk as it

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was streamed live to the world and then

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what a fascinating topic you decided to

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get into first of all before we talk

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about pseudo archeology and all the

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Ancient Aliens and the possible

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influence of superhumans of some

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description what is it about archeology

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in general that got you interested and

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if I may say so at a later stage in life

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than most students would get into it

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like most people who returned to

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University at a later age I had an

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interest in archeology and ancient

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history for many years you know but

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obviously um there are many different

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reasons why you might have to put off

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going back to University something I was

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always interested in and as you probably

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if you notice in my talk like most

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people and even when I was a teenager

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and you can probably relate to this I

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was a big fan of the show and search off

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now hopefully you remember

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um being Australian as well it was

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called great Mysteries of the world I

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don't know if you were an avid viewer

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but I used to watch it when I was a kid

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and even as a teenager but even in my

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20s I found it quite captivating this

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idea of um you know for a bit of

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knowledge or alternative history because

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like this idea that I'm you know you're

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onto something that's um hidden and not

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many other people know about and I think

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that's the Allure of um conspiracy

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theories and Fringe theories and

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pseudoscience in general and that's why

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like most people like most people don't

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have ill intentions most people have a

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genuine interest in the past in history

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and Archeology and Science in general

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and unfortunately as you know Fringe

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theories or pseudo archeology or

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pseudoscience is a lot more available

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and excessive more than um actual proper

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academic or mainstream science or

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archeology or history for that matter so

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I don't think my story is um unique but

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obviously I was able to return to

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University

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um in 2018 I mean at Macquarie and like

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I said I'm still an undergraduate but um

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I know enough about archeology to sort

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of see that what real archeology is

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the same way what real science or Real

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History is as opposed to the pseudo or

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The Fringe variety so yeah

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well I I can identify and I relate to

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what you say about great Mysteries of

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the world I Saturday or Sunday afternoon

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Saturday afternoon channel seven yeah

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channel seven of course in the uh in the

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80s I think it was probably in that same

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time slot in around about 19 late 1980

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that uh James Randy in Australia was

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first played on Australian TV because it

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was an Australian TV production but yes

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I I can certainly remember great

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Mysteries of the world I used to love

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that show now in your talk harking back

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to why people

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find it so appealing the whole idea of

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well ancients and Mysteries and things

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like that but you talk about something

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called Fool's Gold what do you mean by

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fool's gold in archeology well I I

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usually turn either fool's gold or the

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idea of chasing a rainbow yes I use that

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term because it doesn't just relate to

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pseudo archeology it relates to many of

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the different Fringe beliefs that we

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fight against as Skeptics you know real

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science or real knowledge initially that

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does take a lot of work and it doesn't

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seem as appealing on the surface you

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have to dig deep but there's a lot more

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substance to it like most things Fool's

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Gold is very superficial so Fool's Gold

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like actual Fool's Gold it promises a

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lot but doesn't deliver it has no real

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substance but it catches your eye in the

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short term and pseudo archeology and I

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mentioned the idea of like um you know

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all those movies and even like the

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documentaries like it's very captivating

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I have to look at the graphics of those

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movies and shows and the visuals and how

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it can capture your attention and that's

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fair enough that's what entertainment's

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about but when it sort of like it blurs

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the lines and process of boundaries and

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the public sort of sort of thinks that's

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what real archeology is but Fool's Gold

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so it's very captivating but you waste

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all your time and energy chasing a

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rainbow or following fool's gold and you

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can never quite reach it because and

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when when you waste all that time and

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finally if you are let's say lucky or

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unlucky enough to see what's beneath the

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Fool's Gold you're disappointed and all

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that time you wasted all that time you

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wasted when you realize like most things

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real knowledge the real world I'm

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preaching it converted here but what we

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know as Skeptics and and people who

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follow science and reason is that the

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real world is far more wondrous I mean

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even if you just stand out and look at

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the ocean for an hour or so like I love

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to do you know this is all real you know

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and or even I've been to the observatory

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you look through our telescope you look

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up into the sky and that doesn't take

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much to do that doesn't take much of

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your time but it's here right now it's

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something that's accessible to us in the

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long term that's a lot more valuable

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than chasing a rainbow or being sucked

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in by Fool's Gold now of course with

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archeology and science there's a lot of

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hard work and a lot of um mundane work

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involved and it's a lot more longer term

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and that's why I also use the term

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playing to I want working to our wants

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and needs in the short term is a lot

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harder we are likely human play is a lot

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more alluring and I'm enticing than work

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but I mean in the longer term the

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rewards of doing real science or real

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archeology are far greater you know what

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you can really discover and it's

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actually real like I mean that's why I

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use the term Fool's Gold because Fool's

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Gold is not real gold you know it seems

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like real God but as we know it's not

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and that's what any sort of Fringe

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belief or conspiracy theory a place to

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that mindset what I try to get out of my

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talk was that um many of the same issues

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that confront Studio archeology and the

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challenges they face

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um scientists in other fields or

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Skeptics and other fields you know a lot

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of them are drawn from the same mindset

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that same vulnerability to what seems

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like play to what seems like exciting in

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the short term I know if they'll all

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makes sense yeah and and it occurs to me

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that one of the uh great great

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lures one of the great attractions for

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many people about this whole idea of and

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we'll get to ancient apocalypse soon but

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let's think about the the Von danikins

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and these ancient gods Chariots of the

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Gods yeah I know I can hear the laughter

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now look I read that in my 20s and you

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know it is it is captivating but once

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you like everything you know and then

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you realize what I was falling for is

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that any High School history or science

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student should be able to see past that

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but unfortunately you know like we're

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again we're all human you know yeah but

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it's it's part of the P the appeal that

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because somebody's come along and says I

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know the answer here it is you know this

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these things aren't such a mystery after

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all we figured out it was actually

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aliens and isn't that exciting yeah well

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that's yeah that seems a lot simpler but

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unfortunately you're like I mean you

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know especially science any signs of any

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discipline doesn't work like that you

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know but I mean what you'll find out in

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the longer term is actually a lot more

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exciting I mean to me it's a lot more

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exciting that um people who built

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monuments were able to assist five and

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even like and face greater challenges

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that we do in a modern technological

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society that was still human like us and

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in some ways they had that they were

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hardwired with the same evidence through

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psychology isn't that a lot more

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fascinating and a lot more wondrous to

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00:11:45,170 --> 00:11:43,260
me the idea that

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00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:45,180
um Societies or civilizations need help

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from deities or extraterrestrials

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um or from ancient civilizations like

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00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:52,560
Atlantis to me that is that's actually a

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00:11:56,810 --> 00:11:55,200
lot more depressing I mean that's to me

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00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:56,820
that's a lot more depressing I mean that

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if that was the case I'd actually I find

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that you know that's far less exciting

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00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,440
that's a lot more dreary it is it is and

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it's almost like it's cheating you know

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00:12:11,449 --> 00:12:09,240
these ancient people uh needed to cheat

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a little bit to to uh to accomplish

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00:12:15,410 --> 00:12:13,620
their wondrous things now I don't think

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00:12:17,389 --> 00:12:15,420
you've had the opportunity yet to view

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00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,399
the program that Eugenie Scott and I

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00:12:21,949 --> 00:12:19,680
were talking about last on the last

317
00:12:23,329 --> 00:12:21,959
episode ancient apocalypse but I do know

318
00:12:25,850 --> 00:12:23,339
you've been hearing a lot of chatter

319
00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:25,860
about this program uh via your

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00:12:30,889 --> 00:12:28,860
archaeological contacts what's the

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00:12:33,470 --> 00:12:30,899
consensus what's the view out there in

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00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,480
the broad area of your field

323
00:12:37,550 --> 00:12:35,279
well firstly I want to pay very great

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00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,560
tribute to them many great podcasts

325
00:12:40,490 --> 00:12:39,360
which have done reviews on this like and

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00:12:42,410 --> 00:12:40,500
you probably remember my talk I

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00:12:44,449 --> 00:12:42,420
mentioned Andrew King Keller he hosts

328
00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:44,459
the pseudoark Big shout out to him the

329
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:46,200
pseudo archeology um podcast which is

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00:12:50,449 --> 00:12:48,000
part of the umbrella of the archeology

331
00:12:51,769 --> 00:12:50,459
podcast Network anyone who sings science

332
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:51,779
fiction would have seen on the

333
00:12:55,550 --> 00:12:53,519
interviews with both David Anderson who

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00:12:57,170 --> 00:12:55,560
I quote in my talk and more importantly

335
00:12:59,329 --> 00:12:57,180
Ken fitter I mean he's quite well known

336
00:13:01,250 --> 00:12:59,339
even outside archeology for what they

337
00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:01,260
say so a big shout out to them uh

338
00:13:04,850 --> 00:13:02,760
Garrett Fagan who's written many

339
00:13:07,009 --> 00:13:04,860
articles and chapters with Ken fader on

340
00:13:08,329 --> 00:13:07,019
this issue if you can get John Hoops on

341
00:13:10,670 --> 00:13:08,339
the show that'd be great as you Dr

342
00:13:12,170 --> 00:13:10,680
Eugenie Scott mentioned last week and it

343
00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:12,180
consistency they all say the same thing

344
00:13:15,710 --> 00:13:14,100
pretty much and from what my fellow

345
00:13:17,870 --> 00:13:15,720
archeology students who have asked about

346
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:17,880
that's it pretty much it's pseudo

347
00:13:21,710 --> 00:13:19,680
archeology it's rubbish or it's garbage

348
00:13:24,110 --> 00:13:21,720
you know like pretty much you know yeah

349
00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:24,120
oh I agree I agree it goes against

350
00:13:26,990 --> 00:13:25,620
everything which mainstream

351
00:13:28,430 --> 00:13:27,000
archaeologists I'm not a psychologists

352
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:28,440
take a pic of any other scientific

353
00:13:32,329 --> 00:13:30,240
discipline whether it's geology or

354
00:13:34,370 --> 00:13:32,339
evolutionary biology or just

355
00:13:35,569 --> 00:13:34,380
um you know history in general in any of

356
00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:35,579
those disciplines there's no evidence

357
00:13:40,129 --> 00:13:37,860
for the timeline that's put forth in um

358
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:40,139
ancient apocalypse you know yeah um yeah

359
00:13:44,329 --> 00:13:41,760
that's that's well look I'm not

360
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:44,339
surprised the people are uh I was pretty

361
00:13:48,769 --> 00:13:47,519
um unimpressed and one point Jeannie and

362
00:13:50,690 --> 00:13:48,779
I looked at each other burst out

363
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:50,700
laughing at various pits oh yelling at

364
00:13:55,129 --> 00:13:53,279
yelling at the TV you can um you can bet

365
00:13:56,810 --> 00:13:55,139
you know there's a lot there should be a

366
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:56,820
lot of things that unite all scientists

367
00:14:01,850 --> 00:13:59,519
and all Skeptics because an attack on

368
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:01,860
one branch of knowledge or reason or

369
00:14:06,410 --> 00:14:04,560
science is an attack on all of them and

370
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:06,420
the heartening thing is that's sort of

371
00:14:09,769 --> 00:14:07,920
pseudoscience and all those Fringe

372
00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:09,779
theories they're actually like a like

373
00:14:12,410 --> 00:14:11,220
almost like a deck of cards you know

374
00:14:14,090 --> 00:14:12,420
like coming they're actually quite

375
00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:14,100
vulnerable in the way that if once you

376
00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:16,620
put holes and show them show why one

377
00:14:20,690 --> 00:14:19,200
Fringe Theory or one belief is wrong the

378
00:14:21,949 --> 00:14:20,700
rest of it not all the time but it's

379
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:21,959
quite possible the rest of it can come

380
00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:23,760
collapsing down like a house of cards

381
00:14:27,290 --> 00:14:25,380
and that's a that's a that's a positive

382
00:14:28,970 --> 00:14:27,300
thing for Skeptics you know they're not

383
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:28,980
they're not as strong as me or as

384
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,720
menacing as we like to think you know

385
00:14:34,370 --> 00:14:32,160
yes they can be a very challenging

386
00:14:35,870 --> 00:14:34,380
confronting but once you um see how

387
00:14:37,550 --> 00:14:35,880
vulnerable they are and it's not as it's

388
00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:37,560
not an insurmountable challenge if that

389
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:39,480
makes sense it's not you're absolutely

390
00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:41,279
right it's not an instrumental challenge

391
00:14:45,650 --> 00:14:43,260
look Stephen I think you've picked a

392
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:45,660
particularly fascinating area of

393
00:14:50,689 --> 00:14:48,240
research I hope you get to go on many

394
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,699
interesting field trips maybe when the

395
00:14:54,410 --> 00:14:52,320
worlds are slightly safer place from

396
00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:54,420
pandemics and who knows what but the

397
00:14:58,009 --> 00:14:55,980
limits on international travel I get to

398
00:14:59,629 --> 00:14:58,019
maybe get to know more about like

399
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:59,639
archeology in my own country and all

400
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,199
that which is and do like more

401
00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:03,360
experience in that sort of field so like

402
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:04,380
I said there's always positive cities

403
00:15:09,650 --> 00:15:07,440
even within a pandemic it's true and if

404
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:09,660
there's not we make them positive and I

405
00:15:14,569 --> 00:15:12,000
note that you are on a very recent

406
00:15:17,329 --> 00:15:14,579
episode of the ESP podcast with our good

407
00:15:19,370 --> 00:15:17,339
friends from that particular show I'm

408
00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:19,380
just really grateful that I'm way that

409
00:15:23,870 --> 00:15:21,420
I'm I'm Josh was able to interview me

410
00:15:26,210 --> 00:15:23,880
and also have done time for me on um on

411
00:15:28,129 --> 00:15:26,220
his show and um yes so that was a very

412
00:15:29,689 --> 00:15:28,139
new experience for me but I'm also and

413
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:29,699
I'm very appreciative and grateful for

414
00:15:33,410 --> 00:15:31,199
the fact that you've found time to

415
00:15:35,569 --> 00:15:33,420
interview me so um a really big thank

416
00:15:37,310 --> 00:15:35,579
you to that for that Richard oh well

417
00:15:40,970 --> 00:15:37,320
thank you for taking the time out to be

418
00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:40,980
on the show folks I encourage you to do

419
00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:45,060
some research into uh the ancient uh the

420
00:15:48,530 --> 00:15:47,160
pseudo archeology as they as Stephen

421
00:15:50,509 --> 00:15:48,540
calls it I don't think that's a good

422
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,519
name it's been around for a long time

423
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,560
since the days are very vandenican and

424
00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:54,480
it's just got a new Boost

425
00:15:59,210 --> 00:15:56,639
with ancient apocalypse but we do what

426
00:16:00,829 --> 00:15:59,220
we can but for now Stephen Bavaro all

427
00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:00,839
the way over there in Sydney Australia

428
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:14,889
[Music]

429
00:16:20,090 --> 00:16:18,170
hi this is Rob Palmer I'm a member of

430
00:16:23,090 --> 00:16:20,100
the gorilla Skeptics and Wikipedia team

431
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:23,100
gsow and I'm a columnist for the

432
00:16:28,009 --> 00:16:25,680
skeptical Inquirer where I write as the

433
00:16:29,449 --> 00:16:28,019
well-known skeptic listeners here may

434
00:16:31,069 --> 00:16:29,459
know me because I've contributed

435
00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:31,079
segments to the skeptic Zone

436
00:16:37,730 --> 00:16:34,260
interviewing speakers and attendees at

437
00:16:40,249 --> 00:16:37,740
scicon 2019 and 2022 including people

438
00:16:42,829 --> 00:16:40,259
such as Richard Wiseman Brian Dunning

439
00:16:44,509 --> 00:16:42,839
and even Richard Dawkins you can find

440
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:44,519
those interviews and all my other

441
00:16:51,769 --> 00:16:49,199
skeptical work at link tr.e the

442
00:16:54,650 --> 00:16:51,779
well-known skeptic let me tell you that

443
00:16:56,030 --> 00:16:54,660
if I hadn't discovered this podcast I

444
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:56,040
would not have been involved in

445
00:17:01,249 --> 00:16:59,279
organized skepticism at all yep I got

446
00:17:04,130 --> 00:17:01,259
involved when I heard about the gsow

447
00:17:06,350 --> 00:17:04,140
project right here way back in 2012 due

448
00:17:07,850 --> 00:17:06,360
to Richard's selfless support event as

449
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:07,860
well as other skeptical activities

450
00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:10,559
around the world so besides giving back

451
00:17:14,750 --> 00:17:12,540
to the Zone by contribute occasional

452
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:14,760
segments for the show I support the

453
00:17:18,530 --> 00:17:16,319
podcast success with monthly

454
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:18,540
micropayments and I'm asking you to

455
00:17:23,150 --> 00:17:20,880
consider doing the same you can do that

456
00:17:26,210 --> 00:17:23,160
by following the patreon or PayPal Links

457
00:17:28,490 --> 00:17:26,220
at skepticzone.tv every donation

458
00:17:38,420 --> 00:17:28,500
supports the show and Richard will

459
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:50,470
[Music]

460
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:53,760
2023 hard to believe that this means the

461
00:18:02,870 --> 00:17:56,480
skeptic Zone podcast has been broadcast

462
00:18:05,630 --> 00:18:02,880
in 16 different years starting in 2008.

463
00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:05,640
so it might be time to briefly look over

464
00:18:11,870 --> 00:18:07,860
some of the highlights on the skeptic

465
00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:11,880
zone for 2022 what did the show do what

466
00:18:15,789 --> 00:18:14,460
did it cover over the course of the last

467
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:15,799
year

468
00:18:20,510 --> 00:18:18,240
thank you

469
00:18:23,150 --> 00:18:20,520
foreign

470
00:18:26,270 --> 00:18:23,160
look at January the first show had a

471
00:18:28,730 --> 00:18:26,280
segment on five for getting a

472
00:18:30,890 --> 00:18:28,740
vaccination a woman in Australia has

473
00:18:32,990 --> 00:18:30,900
been sacked from a wellness clinic for

474
00:18:37,610 --> 00:18:33,000
the terrible crime of getting a covid-19

475
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:37,620
vaccination also in that month we had a

476
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:38,880
trivia

477
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:44,640
was read by Adrian Hill and I

478
00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:48,480
30 tricky trivia questions if you'd like

479
00:18:52,130 --> 00:18:50,100
to visit that episode if you haven't

480
00:18:54,020 --> 00:18:52,140
heard it and try your luck that's

481
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:54,030
episode number 692.

482
00:18:59,150 --> 00:18:56,160
[Music]

483
00:19:00,650 --> 00:18:59,160
also in January we covered Facebook and

484
00:19:07,130 --> 00:19:00,660
foot pads

485
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:07,140
quack modality where you wrap your feet

486
00:19:14,210 --> 00:19:11,039
up and the claim is that these pads will

487
00:19:17,450 --> 00:19:14,220
draw the toxins out of your body through

488
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,460
the soles of your feet we also had an

489
00:19:24,770 --> 00:19:19,919
interview with my friend pontus Berkman

490
00:19:28,730 --> 00:19:24,780
from Sweden from the ESP podcast and an

491
00:19:33,049 --> 00:19:28,740
author Craig good and we talked about

492
00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:33,059
his book relax and enjoy your food

493
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:35,820
highlights in February you can count on

494
00:19:40,669 --> 00:19:38,400
Adrian with Adrian Hill where Adrian

495
00:19:42,110 --> 00:19:40,679
looked at the mystical meanings of the

496
00:19:44,210 --> 00:19:42,120
number seven

497
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,220
also I read a report I wrote for the

498
00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:46,080
skeptic magazine about

499
00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:48,360
Promises of the future called any day

500
00:19:53,330 --> 00:19:50,700
now I promise this is where

501
00:19:56,750 --> 00:19:53,340
especially religious cults will say any

502
00:19:59,150 --> 00:19:56,760
day now the Messiah is returning or UFO

503
00:20:01,610 --> 00:19:59,160
Believers will say any day now the

504
00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:01,620
government will admit that UFOs are here

505
00:20:06,770 --> 00:20:03,720
along those sort of lines

506
00:20:09,409 --> 00:20:06,780
also in February we covered the nurses

507
00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:09,419
protest in Sydney

508
00:20:16,130 --> 00:20:13,980
and another story about UFOs

509
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:16,140
and as I glance over the notes from

510
00:20:20,990 --> 00:20:18,960
February there's the Ukrainian flag

511
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:21,000
which uh

512
00:20:25,310 --> 00:20:23,940
which gives you a very Stark reminder of

513
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:25,320
what's been happening in that part of

514
00:20:30,650 --> 00:20:27,900
the world over the past year

515
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:30,660
in March we celebrated the 700th episode

516
00:20:34,909 --> 00:20:32,400
of the skeptic Zone

517
00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:34,919
and Adrian Hill did a report about the

518
00:20:40,250 --> 00:20:37,740
number 700 we covered another story

519
00:20:44,090 --> 00:20:40,260
concerning celebrity chef and Ben spoon

520
00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:44,100
winner Pete Evans also I interviewed

521
00:20:50,270 --> 00:20:48,360
Arjun nitigardu about his web page

522
00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:50,280
vulture watch

523
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:52,740
we had the story about Mata being sued

524
00:20:59,810 --> 00:20:57,360
by Australian Watchdog over scam ads

525
00:21:02,270 --> 00:20:59,820
Facebook owner meta is being sued by the

526
00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:02,280
Australian competition Watchdog for

527
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:05,700
publishing scam ads for crypto on its

528
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,720
platform

529
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:08,880
April we covered the story about the

530
00:21:15,169 --> 00:21:11,360
Australian vaccination risks Network

531
00:21:19,310 --> 00:21:15,179
losing yet again in the courts

532
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:19,320
I spoke to an instructor from the

533
00:21:23,690 --> 00:21:21,480
Department of physics and astronomy at

534
00:21:26,690 --> 00:21:23,700
Mississippi State University Bob Swanson

535
00:21:29,870 --> 00:21:26,700
about his critical thinking videos

536
00:21:33,409 --> 00:21:29,880
Brian Dunning was interviewed to tell us

537
00:21:35,890 --> 00:21:33,419
about his production science friction

538
00:21:39,470 --> 00:21:35,900
and if you haven't seen science fiction

539
00:21:41,450 --> 00:21:39,480
that should be on your to-do list

540
00:21:44,330 --> 00:21:41,460
also in April we covered the ongoing

541
00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:44,340
story of the center for inquiry suing

542
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:47,880
Walmart and CVS for selling homeopathy

543
00:21:53,210 --> 00:21:50,640
in may may not interviewed Author George

544
00:21:55,490 --> 00:21:53,220
Ivanov about his book The Supernatural

545
00:21:58,130 --> 00:21:55,500
Survival Guide

546
00:22:00,770 --> 00:21:58,140
Adrian hill with a report about her

547
00:22:03,950 --> 00:22:00,780
riding shotgun alongside Susan go back

548
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:03,960
as they toured the United States

549
00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:06,720
and again later on that month Adrian

550
00:22:13,610 --> 00:22:10,260
Hill and Susan visit explore and more

551
00:22:17,090 --> 00:22:13,620
Museum in Buffalo we also had the story

552
00:22:19,310 --> 00:22:17,100
about UFOs invade the U.S Congress

553
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,320
what I might have to listen to that

554
00:22:23,470 --> 00:22:21,600
again and also that month we brought you

555
00:22:25,730 --> 00:22:23,480
an interview with my friend Dr Siobhan

556
00:22:29,149 --> 00:22:25,740
o'sullon and her continuing battle

557
00:22:30,529 --> 00:22:29,159
against cancer and her thoughts on

558
00:22:33,049 --> 00:22:30,539
euthanasia

559
00:22:36,049 --> 00:22:33,059
in June we went once more to the

560
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:36,059
Festival of mind-body spirit or

561
00:22:39,770 --> 00:22:38,100
mind-body wallet where I was joined by

562
00:22:42,049 --> 00:22:39,780
Daryl Cahoon

563
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:42,059
Susan gerbeck told us about haunted Las

564
00:22:50,990 --> 00:22:46,980
Vegas Brian Dunning on Bigfoot science

565
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:51,000
fiction and more a visit to skeptoid

566
00:22:54,830 --> 00:22:52,559
headquarters

567
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:54,840
and also a story about irrational

568
00:23:01,010 --> 00:22:57,600
beliefs in Australia

569
00:23:03,409 --> 00:23:01,020
in July a live interview with members of

570
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:03,419
the Bay Area Skeptics which was very

571
00:23:07,370 --> 00:23:05,520
pleasant indeed

572
00:23:11,169 --> 00:23:07,380
Susan gerbick told us about the great

573
00:23:14,810 --> 00:23:11,179
Jerry Andrus project sadly also in July

574
00:23:17,630 --> 00:23:14,820
we learned about the death of my dear

575
00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:17,640
friend and Mentor Jim wilshere who

576
00:23:23,330 --> 00:23:19,500
continues to be the skeptic Zone's

577
00:23:26,690 --> 00:23:23,340
official voice over man much much missed

578
00:23:29,390 --> 00:23:26,700
Jim we also interviewed Melanie trisick

579
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,400
King about her recent report in the

580
00:23:33,950 --> 00:23:30,960
skeptic magazine

581
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:33,960
and to round off that month a longer

582
00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:37,200
tribute to Jim wilshere in August Ben

583
00:23:42,169 --> 00:23:40,500
Radford told us about America the

584
00:23:44,690 --> 00:23:42,179
fearful

585
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:44,700
yet another book by Ben Radford we

586
00:23:49,610 --> 00:23:47,120
interviewed another author John guy

587
00:23:53,330 --> 00:23:49,620
Maynard's spooky action took us to the

588
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:53,340
family science day in Parramatta and we

589
00:24:00,649 --> 00:23:58,320
looked at astrology on tick tock

590
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:00,659
now don't forget these are simply some

591
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:03,360
of the stories we brought you every

592
00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:05,220
month on the skeptic Zone there are many

593
00:24:10,010 --> 00:24:07,980
more of course let me see now September

594
00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:10,020
there was a story about a psychic in

595
00:24:13,310 --> 00:24:11,100
court

596
00:24:16,370 --> 00:24:13,320
revolving around a very famous murder

597
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,380
trial in Australia that was the trial of

598
00:24:20,090 --> 00:24:18,480
uh Chris Dawson he was eventually found

599
00:24:22,669 --> 00:24:20,100
guilty by the way

600
00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:22,679
September also of course brought us the

601
00:24:27,529 --> 00:24:25,140
news of the death of Queen Elizabeth II

602
00:24:30,049 --> 00:24:27,539
so we took a look at some of the psychic

603
00:24:33,789 --> 00:24:30,059
predictions over the years regarding the

604
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:33,799
late Monarch we also did a story about

605
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:37,200
Nostradamus and his predictions of Queen

606
00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:39,360
Elizabeth II

607
00:24:44,029 --> 00:24:41,460
and Adrian Hill told us about

608
00:24:45,950 --> 00:24:44,039
pseudoscience in education

609
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:45,960
October brought us an interview with

610
00:24:50,169 --> 00:24:48,480
Claire klingenberg who was preparing to

611
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:50,179
come to skepticon

612
00:24:57,169 --> 00:24:54,720
2022 also an interview with the ESP

613
00:24:58,549 --> 00:24:57,179
podcast also at the time preparing to

614
00:25:01,070 --> 00:24:58,559
come to Australia

615
00:25:04,370 --> 00:25:01,080
another story about UFOs with Brian

616
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:04,380
Dunning because of his work on his

617
00:25:09,529 --> 00:25:06,480
latest movie the UFO movie they don't

618
00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:09,539
want you to see Adrian Hill Covered

619
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:12,120
cycon 2022.

620
00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:15,600
also that month at scicon was Rob Palmer

621
00:25:21,169 --> 00:25:17,640
now getting towards the end of the year

622
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:21,179
in November more from scicon 2022 with

623
00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:25,039
Rob Palmer Adrian Hill told us about

624
00:25:33,769 --> 00:25:31,020
lady Ganga Michelle Frasier Baldwin the

625
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:33,779
daughter of the late Kendrick Frazier

626
00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:36,720
we also had an interview with Xeon

627
00:25:43,850 --> 00:25:40,620
lights and her opinion on extinction

628
00:25:46,730 --> 00:25:43,860
Rebellion after she rebelled from it

629
00:25:48,890 --> 00:25:46,740
and finally we come to December which

630
00:25:53,930 --> 00:25:48,900
was dominated more or less by skepticon

631
00:25:56,049 --> 00:25:53,940
2022 we chat with Andres pintier and the

632
00:26:01,010 --> 00:25:56,059
other members of the ESP podcast

633
00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:01,020
including Baby Luna I discovered chat

634
00:26:08,649 --> 00:26:04,740
GPT what will AI think of next

635
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:08,659
and we had a two-part interview with Dr

636
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:16,250
so there you are just some of the

637
00:26:21,950 --> 00:26:17,840
highlights from the skeptic Zone podcast

638
00:26:25,970 --> 00:26:21,960
for the year 2022 and if you want to

639
00:26:32,450 --> 00:26:25,980
revisit any episodes going back 16 years

640
00:26:34,669 --> 00:26:32,460
to 2008 just go to skeptic Zone Dot

641
00:26:37,730 --> 00:26:34,679
and right at the page you'll see a link

642
00:26:39,310 --> 00:26:37,740
to episodes click on that then click on

643
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:39,320
the year of your choice

644
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:43,679
and uh well like Pro

645
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:46,770
even know what you might find

646
00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:59,450
I'm Mick West in my podcast Tales From

647
00:27:02,029 --> 00:27:00,720
The Rabbit Hole I've extended

648
00:27:04,430 --> 00:27:02,039
conversations with people who've been

649
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:04,440
involved in conspiracy culture I do this

650
00:27:07,310 --> 00:27:06,000
for a couple of reasons firstly because

651
00:27:08,990 --> 00:27:07,320
it's really interesting these people

652
00:27:10,730 --> 00:27:09,000
have great stories about how they fell

653
00:27:12,529 --> 00:27:10,740
down the conspiracy theory Rabbit Hole

654
00:27:14,330 --> 00:27:12,539
what they did down there and what it was

655
00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:14,340
that helped them out sometimes I also

656
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:15,480
talk to people who investigate

657
00:27:18,350 --> 00:27:16,799
conspiracy theories and they have

658
00:27:20,390 --> 00:27:18,360
equally fascinating stories from the

659
00:27:22,010 --> 00:27:20,400
other side secondly I want to understand

660
00:27:23,810 --> 00:27:22,020
how best to prevent the spread of

661
00:27:25,549 --> 00:27:23,820
conspiracy theorism misinformation which

662
00:27:28,010 --> 00:27:25,559
is an increasing problem in a time when

663
00:27:29,690 --> 00:27:28,020
alternative media is exploding the best

664
00:27:31,730 --> 00:27:29,700
way to do this is to communicate

665
00:27:33,649 --> 00:27:31,740
effectively with the people involved and

666
00:27:36,769 --> 00:27:33,659
the best way to do that is with a nice

667
00:27:39,870 --> 00:27:36,779
long chat check it out Tales From The

668
00:27:50,590 --> 00:27:39,880
Rabbit Hole tftrh.com

669
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:53,390
what we want is some more evidence

670
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,799
please

671
00:28:04,620 --> 00:27:56,720
is Joe Alabaster

672
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:06,470
[Music]

673
00:28:12,049 --> 00:28:09,600
this week up in therapy

674
00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:12,059
an alternative Health practice cupping

675
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:14,700
therapy is the placement of cups made of

676
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:17,279
plastic glass or silicon or more

677
00:28:22,730 --> 00:28:19,919
traditionally horn earthenware or bamboo

678
00:28:26,269 --> 00:28:22,740
on the skin often on the back or neck

679
00:28:29,870 --> 00:28:26,279
sometimes elsewhere including the face

680
00:28:31,789 --> 00:28:29,880
using suction skin is drawn into the cup

681
00:28:34,610 --> 00:28:31,799
some of the claims that are associated

682
00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:34,620
with cupping are that it is drawing out

683
00:28:42,169 --> 00:28:38,700
toxins dispelling stagnation and or

684
00:28:44,029 --> 00:28:42,179
improving the flow of energy

685
00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:44,039
cupping is practiced as part of

686
00:28:48,350 --> 00:28:46,620
traditional Chinese medicine and also in

687
00:28:49,850 --> 00:28:48,360
the Muslim world where it's known as

688
00:28:51,890 --> 00:28:49,860
hijama

689
00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:51,900
there are two forms of cupping therapy

690
00:28:56,029 --> 00:28:54,120
wet cupping in which superficial

691
00:28:58,430 --> 00:28:56,039
lacerations are made on the skin and

692
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,440
blood is pulled through into the cup or

693
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:00,720
dry cupping in which there are no Cuts

694
00:29:04,909 --> 00:29:03,120
made and blood is pulled to the skin but

695
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:04,919
not through

696
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:06,720
there are several methods by which

697
00:29:12,049 --> 00:29:09,840
suction is created fire cupping is when

698
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:12,059
a cotton ball soaked in alcohol or

699
00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:14,240
something similar is held with forceps

700
00:29:20,510 --> 00:29:17,100
satellite then briefly placed in the cup

701
00:29:22,730 --> 00:29:20,520
before the cup is placed onto the skin

702
00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:22,740
the heat causes the air to expand within

703
00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:25,140
the cup and then contracts as it cools

704
00:29:29,389 --> 00:29:27,539
and a vacuum is created

705
00:29:31,549 --> 00:29:29,399
cups with valves to be used in

706
00:29:33,470 --> 00:29:31,559
conjunction with a suction pump are also

707
00:29:37,070 --> 00:29:33,480
available

708
00:29:39,289 --> 00:29:37,080
it's efficacy well it's good at creating

709
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:39,299
Bruises And in the case of wet cupping

710
00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:40,559
scars

711
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:43,080
fire cupping carries the risk of Burns

712
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:45,360
and skin infections are a risk whenever

713
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:48,480
skin is damaged and broken cupping can

714
00:29:52,370 --> 00:29:50,880
create blisters blood clots are a

715
00:29:54,769 --> 00:29:52,380
potential side effect

716
00:29:56,330 --> 00:29:54,779
blood loss during wet cupping can cause

717
00:29:59,149 --> 00:29:56,340
lightheadedness similar to that

718
00:30:01,970 --> 00:29:59,159
experienced when donating blood

719
00:30:04,909 --> 00:30:01,980
from a risk benefit perspective cupping

720
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:04,919
is all risk and zero benefit there's no

721
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:06,840
good evidence that cupping can treat any

722
00:30:10,909 --> 00:30:09,360
medical condition or have effects beyond

723
00:30:13,070 --> 00:30:10,919
that of a placebo

724
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,080
as I mentioned earlier though the wet

725
00:30:17,570 --> 00:30:15,600
cupping method referred to as hejama is

726
00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:17,580
practiced in the Muslim world and was

727
00:30:21,649 --> 00:30:19,919
reportedly endorsed by Muhammad so for

728
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:21,659
some people cupping is as much a

729
00:30:27,049 --> 00:30:24,480
religious practice as it is Medical

730
00:30:28,610 --> 00:30:27,059
Ed said Ernst and Simon Singh evaluate

731
00:30:30,889 --> 00:30:28,620
the lack of scientific evidence for

732
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:30,899
cupping therapy in their book trick or

733
00:30:34,909 --> 00:30:33,120
treatment alternative medicine on trial

734
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:34,919
which is well worth the read if you're

735
00:30:39,649 --> 00:30:36,720
interested in alternative medicine and

736
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:39,659
haven't already got a copy

737
00:30:44,810 --> 00:30:42,000
cupping therapy made it into the media

738
00:30:47,090 --> 00:30:44,820
this week when popular New Zealand rugby

739
00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:47,100
player Sonny Bill Williams tweeted a

740
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:49,080
photo of himself undergoing hijama

741
00:30:54,289 --> 00:30:51,360
cupping therapy accompanied by the text

742
00:30:56,269 --> 00:30:54,299
detox time and an emoji with hands

743
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:56,279
raised in Celebration

744
00:31:01,070 --> 00:30:59,039
the photograph is a little gory sun is

745
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:01,080
leaning forwards with five cups attached

746
00:31:05,389 --> 00:31:03,360
to his back and two smaller ones on his

747
00:31:07,970 --> 00:31:05,399
neck all splattered with blood which is

748
00:31:09,950 --> 00:31:07,980
pulling in the bases of the Cups by the

749
00:31:13,490 --> 00:31:09,960
look of the valves they're attached via

750
00:31:15,529 --> 00:31:13,500
manual suction rather than fire cupping

751
00:31:18,409 --> 00:31:15,539
the first tweet in response to this

752
00:31:21,169 --> 00:31:18,419
photo came from our friend Dr Brad McKay

753
00:31:24,830 --> 00:31:21,179
a GP with an extensive public profile

754
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:24,840
who replied quote looks painful and no

755
00:31:29,690 --> 00:31:26,640
evidence that cupping is good for you

756
00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:29,700
like getting giant hickeys on your back

757
00:31:34,190 --> 00:31:32,100
ouch end quote

758
00:31:36,590 --> 00:31:34,200
this was picked up by several media

759
00:31:39,169 --> 00:31:36,600
Outlets the Sydney Morning Herald The

760
00:31:41,149 --> 00:31:39,179
Daily Mail Mashable interviewed Dr Brad

761
00:31:42,649 --> 00:31:41,159
and published several statements he made

762
00:31:44,990 --> 00:31:42,659
from an evidence-based medicine

763
00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:45,000
perspective on the lack of evidence for

764
00:31:49,850 --> 00:31:47,100
any benefits from cupping therapy beyond

765
00:31:51,049 --> 00:31:49,860
the religious Unfortunately they also

766
00:31:53,210 --> 00:31:51,059
spoke with a traditional Chinese

767
00:31:54,590 --> 00:31:53,220
medicine practitioner who uses cupping

768
00:31:56,210 --> 00:31:54,600
therapy which was a bit of a

769
00:31:58,669 --> 00:31:56,220
disappointment from a false balance

770
00:32:00,289 --> 00:31:58,679
perspective but other media Outlets Who

771
00:32:02,510 --> 00:32:00,299
quote mined from the Mashable article

772
00:32:04,430 --> 00:32:02,520
including the Huffington Post and the

773
00:32:06,649 --> 00:32:04,440
independent tended to stick to just

774
00:32:09,889 --> 00:32:06,659
offering Dr Brad's perspective

775
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,899
this were Mashable quote what you're

776
00:32:14,029 --> 00:32:11,760
seeing in the picture is basically

777
00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:14,039
leaking blood from cupping a swollen

778
00:32:19,610 --> 00:32:16,980
area of skin end quote he said

779
00:32:22,010 --> 00:32:19,620
quote the whole theory about the cupping

780
00:32:25,010 --> 00:32:22,020
technique is that it's releasing toxins

781
00:32:27,049 --> 00:32:25,020
releasing bad blood from your body but

782
00:32:29,330 --> 00:32:27,059
basically it's just causing you to get a

783
00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:29,340
bruise underneath your skin there's no

784
00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:32,460
therapeutic benefit at all end quote

785
00:32:36,830 --> 00:32:34,980
McKay said a number of his patients have

786
00:32:39,049 --> 00:32:36,840
treated themselves with cupping for a

787
00:32:41,210 --> 00:32:39,059
number of ailments from back pain to

788
00:32:42,350 --> 00:32:41,220
pneumonia and that this has made him

789
00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:42,360
concerned

790
00:32:46,850 --> 00:32:45,179
quote even if you're just using the

791
00:32:48,889 --> 00:32:46,860
normal cupping technique it can rub

792
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:48,899
against the skin and cause a significant

793
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:51,600
abrasion permanent scarring and can even

794
00:32:56,210 --> 00:32:53,580
cause infections if you're breaking down

795
00:32:58,190 --> 00:32:56,220
the Skin Barrier end quote

796
00:33:00,289 --> 00:32:58,200
so there we have it some good

797
00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:00,299
information on an alternative therapy

798
00:33:04,370 --> 00:33:02,700
making it into international news thanks

799
00:33:06,590 --> 00:33:04,380
to a couple of tweets

800
00:33:09,169 --> 00:33:06,600
sometimes it's really worth politely

801
00:33:10,370 --> 00:33:09,179
speaking up on social media even if you

802
00:33:12,769 --> 00:33:10,380
don't change the mind of the person

803
00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:12,779
you're responding to others may see what

804
00:33:16,970 --> 00:33:14,580
you've said

805
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:16,980
for more evidence please keep listening

806
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:30,830
[Music]

807
00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:33,350
hello this is Maynard did you know that

808
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:34,980
you can listen to the skeptic Zone on

809
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:38,399
YouTube yes I know sounds crazy but it's

810
00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:45,350
also you can hear 40 logical fallacies

811
00:33:49,310 --> 00:33:47,820
with Michelle bigasma and funny sketches

812
00:33:50,509 --> 00:33:49,320
with Richard Saunders and a host of

813
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:50,519
other Skeptics

814
00:33:54,409 --> 00:33:52,320
foreign

815
00:34:03,790 --> 00:33:54,419
just click on the YouTube links on the

816
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:15,829
[Music]

817
00:34:21,070 --> 00:34:17,810
here on time once again to dive into

818
00:34:22,909 --> 00:34:21,080
those pages of Trove at

819
00:34:24,409 --> 00:34:22,919
trove.nla.gov dot a use the online

820
00:34:26,690 --> 00:34:24,419
resource from the Australian government

821
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:26,700
in the National Library of Australia but

822
00:34:31,490 --> 00:34:29,760
for how much longer if you heard last

823
00:34:34,250 --> 00:34:31,500
week's episode there is concern about

824
00:34:36,419 --> 00:34:34,260
this service being available through

825
00:34:42,669 --> 00:34:36,429
next year engine

826
00:34:46,190 --> 00:34:42,679
[Music]

827
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:46,200
well let's keep our skeptical fingers

828
00:34:50,990 --> 00:34:49,200
crossed that Common Sense prevails and

829
00:34:51,950 --> 00:34:51,000
Trove can get more funding in the

830
00:34:55,609 --> 00:34:51,960
meantime

831
00:34:57,650 --> 00:34:55,619
let's see what the digitized Australian

832
00:35:01,630 --> 00:34:57,660
newspapers and magazines and so forth

833
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:01,640
going back many years and I'd say

834
00:35:07,010 --> 00:35:05,520
I have to say at the time about New

835
00:35:08,589 --> 00:35:07,020
Year's predictions

836
00:35:11,569 --> 00:35:08,599
foreign

837
00:35:12,970 --> 00:35:11,579
apt for this time of year being New

838
00:35:16,849 --> 00:35:12,980
Year's Day

839
00:35:19,790 --> 00:35:16,859
now let me see we start our return

840
00:35:26,569 --> 00:35:19,800
searches here and it's the Canberra

841
00:35:34,210 --> 00:35:30,950
an amazing year ahead New York

842
00:35:38,270 --> 00:35:34,220
to hear America's tabloid newspaper

843
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:38,280
psychics tell it 1989 will be an amazing

844
00:35:42,170 --> 00:35:41,280
year Fidel Castro will die in a

845
00:35:44,750 --> 00:35:42,180
hurricane

846
00:35:47,870 --> 00:35:44,760
an Italian jetliner will crash into the

847
00:35:51,530 --> 00:35:47,880
Vatican and an unidentified flying

848
00:35:54,710 --> 00:35:51,540
object will land in Kansas but if any of

849
00:35:57,050 --> 00:35:54,720
these forecasts are to come true the

850
00:35:59,630 --> 00:35:57,060
psychics will have to do a lot better

851
00:36:02,450 --> 00:35:59,640
than last year when virtually nothing

852
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:02,460
they predicted came to pass

853
00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:06,240
wow I'm shocked ten psychics polled by

854
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:08,760
The National Enquirer a tabloid read by

855
00:36:14,990 --> 00:36:12,240
millions predicted that in 1988 McLeod

856
00:36:16,670 --> 00:36:15,000
Gorbachev would divorce his wife Queen

857
00:36:19,010 --> 00:36:16,680
Elizabeth would step down from the

858
00:36:20,810 --> 00:36:19,020
throne how many times have we heard that

859
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:20,820
prediction over the decades

860
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:23,040
Princess Diana would give birth to

861
00:36:28,130 --> 00:36:25,200
conjoined twins and Parliament would

862
00:36:30,589 --> 00:36:28,140
debate which infant should be ranked

863
00:36:32,690 --> 00:36:30,599
higher in the order of succession and

864
00:36:34,849 --> 00:36:32,700
dinosaur eggs would be hatched by

865
00:36:37,790 --> 00:36:34,859
scientists they also predicted that

866
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:37,800
Richard Nixon would become a television

867
00:36:43,550 --> 00:36:41,280
evangelist Fidel Castro would defect to

868
00:36:46,670 --> 00:36:43,560
the United States to open a cigar

869
00:36:49,550 --> 00:36:46,680
Factory and a UFO full of aliens would

870
00:36:52,730 --> 00:36:49,560
land in New York Central Park but before

871
00:36:55,490 --> 00:36:52,740
anyone could question the crew they

872
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:55,500
would be murdered by muggers and their

873
00:37:02,329 --> 00:36:59,280
spacecraft cut into pieces at a nearby

874
00:37:05,210 --> 00:37:02,339
panel beater shop so there we are some

875
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:05,220
very unusual predictions as reported in

876
00:37:11,810 --> 00:37:09,599
the camera times way back in 1989

877
00:37:14,690 --> 00:37:11,820
and once again from the camera times and

878
00:37:16,490 --> 00:37:14,700
I think all of these this week do come

879
00:37:19,490 --> 00:37:16,500
from the Canberra times that's a very

880
00:37:22,329 --> 00:37:19,500
well archived newspaper from the 2nd of

881
00:37:26,089 --> 00:37:22,339
January 1991.

882
00:37:28,730 --> 00:37:26,099
forecasters prove delay the key to

883
00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:28,740
accuracy Philadelphia

884
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:31,140
the procrastinators Club of America

885
00:37:37,609 --> 00:37:34,800
achieved 100 accuracy with its

886
00:37:40,490 --> 00:37:37,619
predictions for 1990 issued on the

887
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:40,500
second last day of the year

888
00:37:45,530 --> 00:37:43,200
normally we wait until the very last

889
00:37:49,490 --> 00:37:45,540
minute to make these predictions

890
00:37:51,730 --> 00:37:49,500
founder and Club president Liz Vass said

891
00:37:54,770 --> 00:37:51,740
but we want to get this year over with

892
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:54,780
some of this year's predictions

893
00:38:01,970 --> 00:37:58,560
a non-singing lip syncing singing group

894
00:38:05,870 --> 00:38:01,980
named Millie will mourn the loss of its

895
00:38:08,810 --> 00:38:05,880
beloved Grammy Award a TV star will grab

896
00:38:11,930 --> 00:38:08,820
more than attention while singing the

897
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:11,940
U.S national anthem Liz Taylor will

898
00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:16,560
parlay one sent into many dollars Elvis

899
00:38:22,370 --> 00:38:18,839
will be seen again

900
00:38:26,030 --> 00:38:22,380
a trumped-up fortune will crumble as

901
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:26,040
Donald Ducks that's interesting a uh

902
00:38:31,010 --> 00:38:27,839
reference to Donald Trump way back in

903
00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:31,020
1991. East Germany and West Germany will

904
00:38:35,450 --> 00:38:33,359
become just plain Germany

905
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:35,460
the same system worked for New Year's

906
00:38:40,010 --> 00:38:36,960
resolutions

907
00:38:42,650 --> 00:38:40,020
like resolving to stop smoking we wait

908
00:38:43,310 --> 00:38:42,660
until we stop smoking to resolve to do

909
00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:43,320
it

910
00:38:49,250 --> 00:38:46,500
we've never broken our resolutions that

911
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:49,260
way and we don't have any guilt about it

912
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:52,320
the club was established in 1956 by

913
00:38:59,510 --> 00:38:54,660
employees at Philadelphia's advertising

914
00:39:02,089 --> 00:38:59,520
agency Mr vas said it had 8 500 members

915
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:02,099
and another half million potential

916
00:39:07,609 --> 00:39:04,800
members who haven't gotten around to

917
00:39:09,550 --> 00:39:07,619
joining people who don't procrastinate

918
00:39:12,050 --> 00:39:09,560
he said were

919
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:12,060
anti-crastinators these people are

920
00:39:17,810 --> 00:39:13,920
literally rushing through life

921
00:39:20,690 --> 00:39:17,820
he said as a result they do everything a

922
00:39:23,810 --> 00:39:20,700
little sooner they leave this world a

923
00:39:27,170 --> 00:39:23,820
little sooner then we refer to them as

924
00:39:29,329 --> 00:39:27,180
the late so and so it's ironic

925
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:29,339
Associated Press

926
00:39:35,390 --> 00:39:33,119
and again from the camera times in 1991

927
00:39:38,569 --> 00:39:35,400
on the 2nd of January

928
00:39:40,430 --> 00:39:38,579
it was a bad year for psychics

929
00:39:41,890 --> 00:39:40,440
Cranston Rhode Island

930
00:39:44,930 --> 00:39:41,900
remember

931
00:39:46,970 --> 00:39:44,940
1990 it was supposed to be the year

932
00:39:49,550 --> 00:39:46,980
Fidel Castro became a television

933
00:39:52,609 --> 00:39:49,560
evangelist dog biscuits were going to

934
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,619
cure baldness and a tidal wave was going

935
00:39:58,190 --> 00:39:54,560
to flood New York City

936
00:40:01,310 --> 00:39:58,200
who said these things would happen

937
00:40:04,010 --> 00:40:01,320
psychics the people who say they can

938
00:40:07,069 --> 00:40:04,020
find missing persons identify criminals

939
00:40:09,050 --> 00:40:07,079
and discover your secrets this year as

940
00:40:12,109 --> 00:40:09,060
in years past a check of the predictions

941
00:40:16,730 --> 00:40:12,119
for 1990 reveals that psychics actually

942
00:40:18,770 --> 00:40:16,740
have an uncanny knack for being wrong

943
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:18,780
few of the predictions are credible to

944
00:40:23,569 --> 00:40:21,119
start with and many are meant just for

945
00:40:26,030 --> 00:40:23,579
laughs the psychics for example said

946
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:26,040
that in 1990 Mikhail Gorbachev would buy

947
00:40:30,410 --> 00:40:28,560
a holiday home in California and Pope

948
00:40:34,910 --> 00:40:30,420
John Paul II would make a hit record

949
00:40:38,450 --> 00:40:34,920
album of Beatles songs titled John Paul

950
00:40:41,329 --> 00:40:38,460
sings John and Paul and George and Ringo

951
00:40:45,230 --> 00:40:41,339
over the years psychic predictions tend

952
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:45,240
to take on familiar themes in 1990 for

953
00:40:50,030 --> 00:40:47,280
example a cure for the common cold was

954
00:40:53,569 --> 00:40:50,040
supposed to have been found in Squid Ink

955
00:40:55,970 --> 00:40:53,579
and a chemical created in the

956
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:55,980
manufacture of dog biscuits was supposed

957
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:57,599
to cure baldness

958
00:41:03,410 --> 00:41:00,480
psychics often forecast drastic career

959
00:41:06,890 --> 00:41:03,420
changes for people in 1989 for example

960
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:06,900
the psychics said Jaja Gabor would

961
00:41:12,530 --> 00:41:09,119
become a follower of the Hare Krishna

962
00:41:15,950 --> 00:41:12,540
sect Not only was 1990 supposed to be

963
00:41:18,589 --> 00:41:15,960
the year Cuban president Fidel Castro

964
00:41:20,450 --> 00:41:18,599
became a television evangelist Playboy

965
00:41:23,450 --> 00:41:20,460
publisher Hugh Hefner was supposed to

966
00:41:26,270 --> 00:41:23,460
become a born-again Christian and black

967
00:41:28,190 --> 00:41:26,280
American television Hostess Oprah

968
00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:28,200
Winfrey was supposed to marry

969
00:41:33,829 --> 00:41:31,260
heavyweight boxer Mike Tyson

970
00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:33,839
by now Jacqueline and nessus should have

971
00:41:39,470 --> 00:41:36,780
tied the knot with Rockstar John Bon

972
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:39,480
Jovi among other forecasts that failed

973
00:41:44,690 --> 00:41:40,880
to come true during

974
00:41:48,829 --> 00:41:44,700
1990 women would start wearing scales

975
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:48,839
fins and fake gills as a fashion fad

976
00:41:54,109 --> 00:41:51,240
Senator Edward Kennedy would have a

977
00:41:57,770 --> 00:41:54,119
mental breakdown and become convinced he

978
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:57,780
was JFK Barbara Bush's hair would

979
00:42:03,050 --> 00:42:00,720
suddenly turn red and a mysterious virus

980
00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:03,060
would be blamed scientists would

981
00:42:09,290 --> 00:42:05,280
discover that the AIDS virus came to

982
00:42:11,089 --> 00:42:09,300
Earth from the 1969 moon landing

983
00:42:14,270 --> 00:42:11,099
people would take holidays in

984
00:42:16,430 --> 00:42:14,280
redecorated Trident submarines

985
00:42:18,770 --> 00:42:16,440
oils built on Alaska's Coastline

986
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:18,780
wouldn't spark hideous mutations in the

987
00:42:22,910 --> 00:42:20,880
local wildlife and the National Guard

988
00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:22,920
would have to fight to keep tourists

989
00:42:29,569 --> 00:42:26,280
away from the two-headed sea lions and

990
00:42:33,170 --> 00:42:29,579
man sized salmon

991
00:42:35,150 --> 00:42:33,180
and that's from reuter and finally we

992
00:42:38,569 --> 00:42:35,160
get to the Canberra times again on the

993
00:42:41,870 --> 00:42:38,579
1st of January 1993 by Norman abjorenson

994
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:41,880
and his column seems to be called zero

995
00:42:48,589 --> 00:42:44,640
six or o6 for some reason psychics

996
00:42:49,370 --> 00:42:48,599
didn't fare so well in 1992 maybe this

997
00:42:51,650 --> 00:42:49,380
year

998
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:51,660
tabloid psychics are busy dispersing

999
00:42:57,290 --> 00:42:55,200
their predictions for 1993. so how did

1000
00:42:59,089 --> 00:42:57,300
they fare in 1992

1001
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:59,099
not too good

1002
00:43:04,609 --> 00:43:01,440
two of the best known in the United

1003
00:43:06,410 --> 00:43:04,619
States Judy Heavenly and Gene Dixon both

1004
00:43:09,290 --> 00:43:06,420
picked President George Bush to be

1005
00:43:12,050 --> 00:43:09,300
re-elected and in addition the national

1006
00:43:14,510 --> 00:43:12,060
enquirer's 10 leading psychics also

1007
00:43:17,870 --> 00:43:14,520
predicted that in 1992 we would see

1008
00:43:20,089 --> 00:43:17,880
Donald Trump and as Donald Trump's name

1009
00:43:23,089 --> 00:43:20,099
mentioned again become a late night talk

1010
00:43:25,130 --> 00:43:23,099
show host Mikhail Gorbachev become an

1011
00:43:28,190 --> 00:43:25,140
American citizen and Fidel Castro's

1012
00:43:31,490 --> 00:43:28,200
regime toppled in Cuba what's ahead for

1013
00:43:33,650 --> 00:43:31,500
1993 psychic Peter Mears says Dolly

1014
00:43:36,170 --> 00:43:33,660
Parton's left breast will explode during

1015
00:43:40,130 --> 00:43:36,180
a nationally televised special and

1016
00:43:44,380 --> 00:43:40,140
Madonna will reveal that she's in love

1017
00:43:49,150 --> 00:43:44,390
with Jim Nabors Happy New Year

1018
00:43:52,089 --> 00:43:49,160
[Music]

1019
00:43:55,250 --> 00:43:52,099
so there we are some of the uh

1020
00:43:57,890 --> 00:43:55,260
interesting returns when we do a search

1021
00:43:58,609 --> 00:43:57,900
for New Year's predictions through the

1022
00:44:00,690 --> 00:43:58,619
years

1023
00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:00,700
the true archives

1024
00:44:08,030 --> 00:44:06,410
the Trove archives and see what new year

1025
00:44:10,910 --> 00:44:08,040
predictions or other predictions or

1026
00:44:13,089 --> 00:44:10,920
other information you discover when you

1027
00:44:15,470 --> 00:44:13,099
look at Trove at

1028
00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:15,480
trove.nla.gov dot a u

1029
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:17,700
because you'll never know what you might

1030
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:35,950
[Music]

1031
00:44:39,950 --> 00:44:38,150
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1032
00:44:43,130 --> 00:44:39,960
Zone podcast

1033
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:43,140
and we look forward to what 2023 has in

1034
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:44,880
store I've already learned something in

1035
00:44:49,250 --> 00:44:47,760
the last week I have I try to learn

1036
00:44:50,750 --> 00:44:49,260
something every week

1037
00:44:51,849 --> 00:44:50,760
but I've learned there's something

1038
00:44:54,410 --> 00:44:51,859
called

1039
00:45:00,770 --> 00:44:54,420
a thrip

1040
00:45:02,690 --> 00:45:00,780
reporter in Melbourne wrote To Me

1041
00:45:04,730 --> 00:45:02,700
telling me about

1042
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:04,740
thrips

1043
00:45:09,530 --> 00:45:07,200
I'm not going to tell you what they are

1044
00:45:11,170 --> 00:45:09,540
you're going to have to look it up

1045
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:11,180
thrip

1046
00:45:14,990 --> 00:45:13,200
t-h-r-i-p-s what do you think they are

1047
00:45:19,010 --> 00:45:15,000
maybe I should give you a multiple

1048
00:45:21,770 --> 00:45:19,020
choice thrips is this a rare skin

1049
00:45:24,410 --> 00:45:21,780
condition brought on by heat

1050
00:45:26,089 --> 00:45:24,420
I've got the thrips doctor here's some

1051
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:26,099
green thank you

1052
00:45:32,030 --> 00:45:29,760
is it an old-fashioned Australian coin

1053
00:45:34,849 --> 00:45:32,040
no longer in use how much is that

1054
00:45:36,130 --> 00:45:34,859
that'll be uh six thrips please thank

1055
00:45:38,750 --> 00:45:36,140
you

1056
00:45:42,349 --> 00:45:38,760
possibly it's a little insect that the

1057
00:45:45,170 --> 00:45:42,359
sort of annoys you in its thousands oh

1058
00:45:47,329 --> 00:45:45,180
no here come the thrips

1059
00:45:53,030 --> 00:45:47,339
maybe it's that

1060
00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:53,040
or could it be a nice Australian flower

1061
00:45:58,130 --> 00:45:56,700
I won first prize for my mixed

1062
00:46:00,109 --> 00:45:58,140
arrangement

1063
00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:00,119
of thrips

1064
00:46:04,190 --> 00:46:02,160
what do you think it is some of you will

1065
00:46:05,630 --> 00:46:04,200
know undoubtedly I didn't know I didn't

1066
00:46:08,990 --> 00:46:05,640
know until recently

1067
00:46:12,050 --> 00:46:09,000
there we are starting 2023 off

1068
00:46:13,849 --> 00:46:12,060
with a curious conundrum

1069
00:46:16,089 --> 00:46:13,859
thank you to all those people who have

1070
00:46:20,329 --> 00:46:16,099
supported the skeptic Zone through 2022

1071
00:46:22,670 --> 00:46:20,339
and many years before that of course and

1072
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,680
I hope you can continue to support the

1073
00:46:27,230 --> 00:46:24,800
skeptic zone for many years to come at

1074
00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:27,240
skepticzone.tv through your generous

1075
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,660
patreon or PayPal donations the link is

1076
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:32,400
right there thank you to all my

1077
00:46:37,849 --> 00:46:34,800
reporters throughout the year sending me

1078
00:46:40,190 --> 00:46:37,859
lots of reports it uh

1079
00:46:42,290 --> 00:46:40,200
it's it's like the

1080
00:46:44,569 --> 00:46:42,300
the people who contribute financially to

1081
00:46:46,430 --> 00:46:44,579
the show without the reporters also

1082
00:46:49,069 --> 00:46:46,440
there would be no show I think they

1083
00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:49,079
really they really are the icing on the

1084
00:46:53,329 --> 00:46:50,760
cake thank you

1085
00:46:55,790 --> 00:46:53,339
but for this week no matter where you

1086
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:55,800
are listening to us from around the

1087
00:47:04,630 --> 00:46:58,319
world this is Richard Saunders signing

1088
00:47:11,650 --> 00:47:06,950
you've been listening to the skeptic

1089
00:47:13,930 --> 00:47:11,660
Zone podcast please visit our website at

1090
00:47:17,089 --> 00:47:13,940
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1091
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:17,099
contacts and to access the bat catalog

1092
00:47:22,609 --> 00:47:20,640
of episodes going back to 2008.

1093
00:47:26,210 --> 00:47:22,619
you can follow the skeptic Zone podcast

1094
00:47:28,490 --> 00:47:26,220
on Twitter at skeptic Zone visit our

1095
00:47:29,870 --> 00:47:28,500
Facebook page or leave a review on

1096
00:47:32,030 --> 00:47:29,880
iTunes

1097
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:32,040
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